zotz: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] zotz at 08:11am on 08/12/2009
I have heard it maintained more than once that that is indeed the point of the book, and I've read a Tolkein quote to that effect. There's a reasonable point of view that Sam is actually the book's hero. He certainly gets the last word.
simont: A picture of me in 2016 (Default)
posted by [personal profile] simont at 11:15am on 08/12/2009
That puts me in mind, more than anything else, of the claim that the (real) Star Wars trilogy is really told from the POV of the two droids.

I'm not really sure that was a good thing, because now my brain is transplanting all sorts of Artoo and Threepio's dialogue on to Frodo and Sam.
zotz: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] zotz at 02:06pm on 08/12/2009
Well, a supporting argument for that is it being partly based on a Kurosawa film told from the point of view of the two peasants the droids were based on. So you can have Frodo and Sam spouting mediaeval Japanese now, if you like.
 
posted by [identity profile] grumpyolddog.livejournal.com at 05:47pm on 08/12/2009
That would rock. I feel some redubbing coming on.
 
posted by [identity profile] damerell.livejournal.com at 08:51am on 10/12/2009
Indeed, the Jackson LOTR _has_ some Star Wars dialogue in, which is generally painfully awful in context.
 
posted by [identity profile] tigerfort.livejournal.com at 01:10pm on 08/12/2009
There's also Sam's comment about "I can carry you and it too", which I'd rather thought was intended to carry wider significance than straight physical truth. (He does literally carry Frodo at the time, but he's been doing it metaphorically all along.)
 
posted by [identity profile] damerell.livejournal.com at 08:52am on 10/12/2009
If the Ring's weight is purely a psychological effect, perhaps it should have been piggybacks all the way to Mount Doom.
 
posted by [identity profile] damerell.livejournal.com at 05:51pm on 08/12/2009
That's a bit odd in the light of the way everyone else is upper-class and furthermore part of the true bloodline, in the way that Aragorn is more qualified to run Gondor than Faramir is even though Aragorn was bushwhacking while Faramir was, er, learning how to rule Gondor, because of who Aragorn's great-grandfather was.
zotz: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] zotz at 06:23pm on 08/12/2009
Well, as quoted in thee ackurssed Witchipedia,

"My Sam Gamgee is indeed a reflexion of the English soldier, of the privates and batmen I knew in the 1914 war, and recognised as so far superior to myself" (The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, ed. Humphrey Carpenter).

See also here for Tolkein referring to Sam as the "chief hero" of the story.
 
posted by [identity profile] unwholesome-fen.livejournal.com at 06:52pm on 08/12/2009
Surely Aragorn is more qualified because he understands what a king is for - to defend the people. Faramir is too tied up with family issues, honour etc.
 
posted by [identity profile] alextiefling.livejournal.com at 09:00pm on 08/12/2009
Exactly. Aragorn learned mainly from Elrond, whose domain is a tight-knit community that he leads as a friend and guide. Faramir learned from Denethor, who (even in Tolkien's version) is a cold, distant bureaucrat who doesn't connect properly with his people. It's remarkable that Boromir and Faramir turned out even as well-adjusted as they did.
 
posted by [identity profile] unwholesome-fen.livejournal.com at 06:47pm on 08/12/2009
The point of the book is surely what makes someone suitable to be a ruler - in particular what makes Aragorn suitable. The contrast between Sam and Frodo is some of the same questions played out on a smaller scale.

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